Similar to Chris Bassitt, All-Star Seth Lugo masters the art of pitching

Last Thursday, we ran a Q&A here at FanGraphs titled “Chris Bassitt addresses the art of pitching.” In it, the 35-year-old Toronto Blue Jays right-hander talked about his varied repertoire — “eight or nine pitches,” he told me — and how he uses them to attack hitters. In both style and variety, Bassitt is very close to a pitcher who will represent the Kansas City Royals in tonight’s All-Star Game. That would be Seth Lugo.

The Royals were at Fenway Park last weekend, and since Boston is my home base, I jumped at the chance to talk to the 34-year-old right-hander. I expected a conversation similar to the one I had with Bassitt, and I was not mistaken. Lugo, who has a 2.48 ERA and a 3.31 FIP this season, is a huge fan of the art of pitching.

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David Laurila: How have you developed as a pitcher over the years?

Seth Lugo: “I would say I’ve learned from my mistakes. Coming up in the minors is different than pitching in the major leagues. Once you get to the major leagues, you start to notice a pattern of how mistakes happen, whether it’s in a pitch, sequences or game situations. I think learning from my mistakes has been the most important thing for me.”

Laurel: You used to be known primarily for your curveballs, but today you have a varied repertoire. How has your repertoire of new throws developed?

Lugo: “So, as a reliever, I usually stick with my best two pitches and throw one or two more, whether it’s against a right-handed or left-handed hitter, a changeup or a slider. When I was in San Diego last year, the pitching coach Ruben Niebla was talking about sweeper sliders. I had never heard the term sweeper before. I didn’t really know what it meant. We started playing around with some grips. He told me, ‘You can spin it well. You can spin other things too, so it doesn’t have to be just one pitch that you can spin so well.’ That’s how it kind of came about.

“Growing up, I was always playing around with balls, whether it was a whiffle ball or a baseball. I would throw pitches and just have fun. I’ve always had the ability to learn a new pitch pretty quickly, so I realized I could throw more than just three or four pitches in a game. Right now, it’s up to 10 or 11. I keep hitters off balance and recognize their swing paths and try to make an adjustment before they do.”

Laurel: What does your entire repertoire currently look like?

Lugo: “Two-seam, four-seam, cutter, change, split-change, sweeper, slow sweeper, one I call a carry sweeper, slurve, curveball and slider – a regular slider.”

Laurel: Basically you are Chris Bassitt…

Lugo: “I think I have one or two more than him. I also threw a Gyro Sweeper earlier in the season – I haven’t thrown it in about four starts now – so I had 12 throws then.”

Laurel: Gyro Sweeper sounds counterintuitive…

Lugo: “Yeah. It’s like a gyro spin with a seam that catches. It’s a bigger horizontal break than a regular gyro slider. It’s not deep, but it shoots left pretty well. A sweeper has a side spin. Gyros have a bullet spin. A gyro sweeper has a bullet spin, but with a seam… a seam that catches. A seam shift gyro.”

Laurel: But now you don’t really throw it…

Lugo: “I’ll probably bring it back out. I’ve been working on a few other things. Between this and my slider, they started to blur a little bit. But yeah, I’ll bring it back out someday.”

Laurel: How did you originally learn it?

Lugo: “Someone contacted me. He said a lot of guys in the league are swinging and missing on the Gyro Spin, and if you can find a way to get more sweeper action with the Gyro Spin, it’s pretty hard to hit. I think (Alec) Marsh throws a variation of that. I’ve been playing around with a couple of grips and found one that works pretty well. But I’ve gotten a little off of it. I didn’t start doing it until a month later, just this season, so I haven’t had a lot of time to work on it and find the consistency.”

Laurel: Who suggested the pitch?

Lugo: “A guy I know. I’ll leave it at that.”

Laurel: How many shots did you have when you moved into the starting lineup last season?

Lugo: “In the offseason, I developed a different slider. I threw it for two months last year before I figured out the sweeper and the other throws. It was like a slow slider that I haven’t thrown since. So it was two sliders, changeup, four-seam, sinker, curveball.”

Laurel: You have essentially doubled the number of your throws…

Lugo: “Yes, in about a year. I was on the injured list and I made some suggestions – in June of last year.”

Laurel: I assume you used a lot of technology in developing pitches?

Lugo: “For me, it’s actually more about feel. Feel and just the horizontal and vertical movements. We have the TrackMan. I don’t really pay attention to the spin rate. I’ll check my curveball every now and then just to make sure it’s spinning the way it should, but mostly I just pay attention to the horizontal and vertical movements.”

Laurel: Are you still throwing the same curveball?

Lugo: “I’ve always had the same curveball. I’ve just learned how to use other pitches to improve performance. In my early years, if you had two strikes, you were probably going to get a curveball. That makes it easier to hit. Guys could knock out pitches really easily. Now, if they have four or five pitches in their head, if they get to two strikes, the curveball’s performance is even better.”

Laurel: Where do you think you would be if you were still a reliever? Would you be as good as you are now?

Lugo: “Well, I wouldn’t have all those throws. I’d say it would be similar to my career average. I’d be about where I was.”

Laurel: With your ability to use a variety of pitches, starting out as a beginner seems like a natural choice.

Lugo: “Yeah. That and reading swings and trying to keep guys off certain pitches to save them for later in the game. Finding gaps that I can keep getting to them through. As a reliever, you’re only dealing with three or four guys, so they can ambush the first pitch or they could try to get a strike. Pitching as a reliever is kind of a smaller game plan, a smaller tactic.

“As a starter, if a player has a big gap, you have to expose that gap. But if the player is a pretty good hitter — he’s hard to knock out — you have to show all of his pitches and you have to know where each of them fits. As I go through these hitters, we talk about where we’re going to throw each one. Some of them may not even be competitive, but I want them to look at it and think about it. I try to find a place where I can throw every pitch, even if it’s a pitch they hit well. There’s going to be a place where they don’t hit it — maybe in the dirt — but we’re going to throw it.”

Laurel: You mentioned saving pitches. What is the value of not throwing a pitch that you know a hitter is having trouble with?

Lugo: “So let’s say it’s the batter on fourth base. That pitch will take him out of the game almost every time — he’s got some weak contact — but he’s not going to swing and miss. There’s nobody on base and we’re up by three runs. I’m not going to throw my best pitch to take him out right away; I’m going to save that for when there are two guys on base and no outs. In a different situation, you throw differently. It also makes it harder for the guys to recognize my sequences.”

Laurel: I’ve asked a lot of pitchers if they consider pitching more of an art or a science. I think I know what your answer would be…

Lugo: “It’s an art. I mean, the science will help you. Like anything, you can use science to improve your techniques. You can use it as a learning aid, but you can’t just plug it in. There are too many variables for it to work all the time. Ultimately – at least for me – it’s not science. It’s an art.”